Nu Skin in Vietnam
Posted: August 19, 2012 | Author: Steve Jackson | Filed under: Reflections, Stories | Tags: Hanoi, nu skin, romney, vietnam |60 Comments »Yesterday my wife received a call from an Australian lady she didn’t know, who had a “business proposition” to put to her.
Strangely this isn’t unusual. People call my wife about stocking her produce. Sometimes they call because there’s an outlet they think she might consider opening a new cafe. My wife has assisted foreigners in business who need a Vietnamese go-between to assist with the bureaucracy minefield. She has a reputation for absolute honesty and as someone who can be trusted.
Tomorrow I am meeting a local young exec who contacted me via LinkedIn to discuss us working together on a PR project.
Anyway, my wife was due to meet at 10 but staffing levels at The Cart were low so she had to get up at 6.30am to open up, later when a staff member was delayed at home, she had to put the meeting back till 12. She asked me to come along. She didn’t want to miss it, she assumed it was important.
When we arrived at a suspiciously unflash hotel the lady we met asked Loan what she did. She had no information on her whatsoever and knew nothing of her cafes. ”You must have come because you are interested in making a change in your life,” she said.
No, WE came because YOU asked us to.
She mentioned NuSkin and I’d have left right then, except it was Loan’s meeting and I didn’t want to call the shots. She showed us impressive pictures of huge headquarters which she admitted hadn’t actually been built yet. Products she told us about were given magical powers – essentially stalling aging by re-engineering your genetics. It even improves your sex drive. Right.
Multi Level Marketing or call it what you like, straying over the line into less legal territory has cost Nu Skin in the past. Based in Utah, USA it’s no surprise that it has a strong Mormon backbone, and is a big contributor to Mitt Romney’s bid to become president.
There’s an interesting article on Mother Jones about them here and, in the Vietnam context, I thought this snippet was interesting:
TAHNS HAVE A JOKE about multilevel-marketing companies: MLM really stands for “Mormons Losing Money.” The notion of selling to one’s friends and neighbors is so intertwined with the culture that the final season of HBO’s Big Love featured an MLM subplot. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Utah has the highest concentration of such companies in the country.
There’s a reason why MLMs, many of which peddle natural health products like Nu Skin’s dietary supplements, have thrived there. Mormon scripture encourages the use of herbs as God’s medicine, and the faith has a strong tradition of turning to alternative medicine.
You can see why Vietnam might also been seen as fertile grounds for sales.
Okay here’s what bugs me. It’s clear that for the most part this company stays just about on the right side of the law. So I’m not claiming anything illegal is going down. But this cold call was infuriating. My guessing was my wife was targetted as an English speaking Vietnamese business woman. That was quite obviously all that was known about her. Nu Skin are listed on Am Cham. Frankly, as I have suspected before when I’ve had cold calls from “wealth management” companies, somebody we give our business cards too, in good faith, is selling phone numbers.
This was our Sunday, and we were scammed into driving across town to talk to this person. When I lived in Cameroon I complained that missionaries descended in numbers not because Africa was Godless, the opposite was the case, I’ve never known anywhere quite so religious.
It was targetted because it was naive. It was still ready to listen whereas those back home had smartened up.
My advice would be not to waste your time talking to them. I wish we hadn’t.
Finally, if you Google Nu Skin there are pages of overtly positive information about them that is so positively corporate it can’t possibly represent a cross section of real experience. They are quite obviously putting a lot of resources into gaming the internet and Google. Hopefully, as far as Vietnam is concerned this may redress the balance a little.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re issuing take-down orders on any negative publicity to affect their Google rankings. When I had my blog post lambasting Parking Eye’s rather dubious business practices, Googling them resulted in their corporate page at the top followed by umpteen blogs, consumer rights organisatons and news stories detailing their borderline criminal activities.
Around the time their legal team ordered I take my blog post down (by threatening my host, who capitulated) I noticed that the front page of Google had changed when searching them and was almost completely links related to their corporate pages, subsidiaries and customer testimonials.
So, yes, Google can be “bought”.
Having said that, I’ve just done a check for the first time in ages and it’s now 2 corporate links and several dozen telling you about what a bunch of pirates they are.
The coverage didn’t feel real. And there were yards and yards of it from their own website, and sub sites and social media platforms etc. Basically as if they’re churning it out so fast that it’s blocking anything else. Also any negative coverage out there was answered by people giving copybook defences of the company – which didn’t quite seem real. Anyway, I don’t mean they’re not legit – just that this kind of cold calling and dreaming selling is pretty ick. Basically the biggest reason not to do this thing is that it turns you into the type of person who will trick people into meeting you on a Sunday morning when they better things to do.
I am a Nu Skin distributor in New Zealand. I am very grateful for the person who told my wife. I am not sure why you are so bitter. You were called and asked to look at a business. You went and the were not interested in our product or business which I totally respect.
My question is what if the business and products were for exciting for you, wouldn’t you also be grateful. My open minded look at Nu Skin has turned into a business which has turned over well in excess of US$100 million and I have changed my families life for ever.
As for the Mormon thing what does this have to do with business. I am not Mormon but let me give you my thoughts. I drive a BMW and a Range Rover I don’t judge these cars based on the religious beliefs of the founders of these great companies. Nu Skin is a great company with some of the most amazing products in the world of anti aging. Nu Skin offers an amazing opportunity to those who train and support teams of distributors who on sell to consumers.
In every Asian country Nu Skin is in the top 5 brands. Wealthy countries like Japan & Korea to developing countries like Philippines and Thailand. I am certain that within the next 5 years Nu Skin will become one of the top consumer brands in Vietnam. We launched last week and all I can say is what an amazing opportunity to be a pioneer of a new brand such an amazing place like Vietnam.
These are just a few thoughts
With Respect
Jeff Ghaemaghamy
Founder, Proven Principles dot com
I am a Nu Skin distributor in New Zealand. I am very grateful for the person who told my wife. I am not sure why you are so bitter. You were called and asked to look at a business. You went and the were not interested in our product or business which I totally respect.
My question is what if the business and products were for exciting for you, wouldn’t you also be grateful. My open minded look at Nu Skin has turned into a business which has turned over well in excess of US$100 million and I have changed my families life for ever.
As for the Mormon thing what does this have to do with business. I am not Mormon but have a thought for you. I drive a BMW and a Range Rover should I judge these cars or the opportunity to sell them based on the religious beliefs of the founders of these great companies. Nu Skin is a great company with some of the most amazing products in the world of anti aging. Nu Skin offers an amazing opportunity to those who train and support teams of distributors who on sell to consumers.
In every asian country Nu Skin markets their products they are in the top 5 brands. Nu Skin has only just launched in Vietnam last week and what an amazing opportunity to be a pioneer of this amazing product in such a vibrant and beautiful country like Vietnam.
Obviously, I wasn’t there to hear the conversation but I wouldn’t be bitter but rather grateful for the opportunity.
These are just a few thoughts
With Respect
Jeff Ghaemaghamy
Team Elite
Million Dollar Circle
Founder, Proven Principles dot com
Jeff, wondering how you found your way to my blog? Whenever anyone writes anything about Nu Skin people pop up with the company line. Who sent you here? I can’t believe you spend a lot of time personally Googling Nu Skin Vietnam.
Hi Steve,
I subscribe to google alerts which contain information on Nu Skin. I am a professional and always like to read whats happening around the world of Nu Skin. I clicked on your article expecting to read some positive news and was very surprised by your blog. As I said before I totally respect the experience was not what you were expecting. I love Nu Skin and I want to apologise for the bad experience you have had.
Jeff
Dear Steve, I live in China, and a few weeks ago, I learned Nu Skin from one of my friends. I was interested in understanding more about the company and their commission system. I went to a few meetings and I found the people there are all normal people. They are all friendly, energetic, and positive. They share their stories, exchange ideas, encourage and help each other. Also the money they earned were real and honest. I’m still in the process of leaning more about Nu Skin. The thing I want to say here is, please be fair and open-minded.
By the way, the reason I got to your blog is because I have used google alert. Of course, I do appreciate your point of view about Nu Skin and thanks for sharing your unpleasant experience. From which I have learned, if I ever will join Nu Skin, I won’t do what the lady had done. Nu Skin actually encourages their reps to be professional and to respect their potential customers or team members.
In any case, I wish you well and happy in Vietnam. It’s a place I will definitely visit one of these days.
Ina
Jeff, one of the reasons that I wrote what I wrote was that the woman who conned us into a Sunday morning meeting across town kept saying to do our own checking. When I did, on my smart phone as my wife continued to chat, one of the first things I found was on Wiki and mentioned accusations of pyramid selling. When I mentioned this, the lady said anyone could write on Wikipedia. But just your company can write on your own platforms and when you Google Nu Skin Vietnam the whole of the first page is dominated by your sites, pages, platforms etc. I’ve worked in digital marketing long enough to know this doesn’t happen by accident.
I’ve also worked with businesses who deal with online reviews long enough to know fake reviews when I see them.
The other issue is that if you go to a developing country and “acquire” phone numbers to call and ring at random and showing pictures of shiny new offices (that haven’t been built) and making outlandish claims about “reengineering” genetics then, I’m sorry but that is plainly wrong. Yes, sooner or later you’ll hit someone with more cash then education who won’t have any consumer knowledge of this kind of selling – and you’ll get lucky. No doubt there is a start up cost involved and for many people here finding that cash is going to hurt. As a nation of consumers, Vietnam is naive and doesn’t have the legal framework to ask you to backup some of the less proven benefits of the products. You and I both know that if half of these claims were true then this product would have been on the front page of every newspaper and science journal worldwide. The woman we met told us the chief scientist at Nu Skin literally wasn’t ageing due to his products.
Finally I just wanted to add, re your earlier remark, I didn’t criticise Mormons, I just made parallels between their characteristics and those of Vietnamese (arguably Asians as a whole), and pointed out that you see why Nu Skin might think this part of the world is fertile ground.
Ina,
I’m sorry but with every Nu Skin supporter who is claiming they have set up Google Alerts for mention of the company name before coming on to this blog to stand up for Nu Skin…well it just backs up my initial thought. That the company has it’s digital ear to the ground and is going to shout louder than any dissent. Do you really want me to be “fair and opened minded” in believing that this company can genuinely reverse ageing?
Hi Steve,
From what you are saying the person obviously was unprofessional in her approach. I have never made a cold call or treated anyone in the way you have explained.
Now I debated if I was wasting my words in the following but feel it’s important to clear up your impression of Nu Skin.
The building that you must have been shown is a new US$90 million addition to our existing facilities. As for the pyramid selling comment. Nu Skin is a public traded company and over the last 3 years has performed right along side Apple. Network Marketing has certainly some good companies and some that are well lets just say not so good. Many high profile captains of business endorse Network marketing including Richard Branson. I am bias but I believe that Nu Skin is a classy and sexy brand. In saying this I respect that Networking isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. I believe it’s one of the greatest types of business you can build offering low capital start up and high profit with out what I call brain damage of traditional business. We offer a franchise type system with out the huge investment.
As for products I can personally say I have had amazing results. Nu Skin has invested over US$1billion over the past 20 years. This hasn’t created some miracle product but they have made some very exciting discoveries. Nu Skin has 75 in house scientists many with Ph.D’s along side our partners Lifegen Technologies. Various partnerships for continued research including a long standing relationship with Stanford University. Collectively Nu Skin’s Scientific Advisory Board (SAB) have written over 100 books and published 3,400 articles in scientific journals. The Discovery Channel is currently making a documentary which will feature Nu Skin’s ageLOC technology. The science essentially is in identifying genes responsible for aging in various organs such as the skin and resetting the expression of these genes. Nu Skin is not altering or manipulating genes but rather influencing gene expression. This is part of a new science called epigenetics which hit front page of both Time Magazine and National Geographic. Our products have ageLOC products have been features on news channels all over the world. Now in saying all of this the proof is in the pudding as it were. Nu Skin products work, don’t believe me try them if you or your wife don’t see results we offer a 100% money back guarantee.
I have a very simple explanation of epigenetics on my website http://www.provenprinciples.com/principles-of-ageloc-epi
I hope my words will leave you with a positive impression of our wonderful company.
If you have any further thoughts or questions drop me a personal email on jeffghaemaghamy@gmail.com
Sincerely
Jeff
P.S. As for the google alert I understand your mistrust after your bad first impressions but I do resent being called a lier. I am more than happy to send you a screen shot of my gmail inbox.
Nu Skin in Vietnam « Our Man in Hanoi
Yesterday my wife received a call from an Australian lady she didn’t know, who had a “business proposition” to put to her. Strangely this isn’t unusual. People …
ourmaninhanoi.com/2012/08/19/nu-skin-in-vietnam/
Jeff,
When you Google NU Skin Vietnam this is what I get:
http://nuskinvina.com/
http://www.nuskin-vietnam.com/
http://www.nu-skin-vietnam.com/
http://www.nuvina.com
http://nuskin-viet.com/
http://nuskin-vietnam.vn/
http://nuskinvietnam.wordpress.com/
http://inuskinvietnam.wordpress.com/
http://gonsvietnam.com/
https://sites.google.com/site/nuskinviet2011/
https://www.facebook.com/nuskinvn
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nu-Skin-Vietnam/369153309762649
https://www.facebook.com/nuskinvina
https://www.facebook.com/vietnam.nuskin
https://www.facebook.com/vietnam.nuskin.1
https://www.facebook.com/nuskin.vietnam.98
https://www.facebook.com/teamelites.vietnam
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/NU-SKIN-Vietnam-Sucess-4414451
http://www.vn.linkedin.com/pub/nuskin-vietnam/53/807/28a
http://vn.linkedin.com/pub/nuskin-vietnam/54/789/348
http://vn.linkedin.com/in/nuskinvietnam
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Nuviet-Club-4530899
http://vn.linkedin.com/pub/nuskin-nuskin/3b/b64/a71
Not to mention hundreds of movies. Pretty good going considering you’ve just opened. This is just a about the worst gaming of the system I’ve ever seen. Pushing up your SEO while pushing dissenters down the Google findings. Shocking. By the way I gave up at page 23, I am sure there are plenty more.
I don’t get it. Why is SEO bad again? Doesn’t every company with half a brain do this?
The whole point of the way Google ranks pages is to get the information that people need to the top of the pages. That’d done on interest, content, links etc. What NS have done is just cynically manipulate this without any regard for people actually wanting to find information – particularly dissenting information. I lost count how many times the woman mentioned above suggested we Google NS and she obviously knew that any dissent had been pushed into the furthest corners of the web. She knew that most people won’t check past the first couple of pages.
I can’t begin to imagine any company that has such little regard for information or brand or consistency and instead is just going for SEO. Can you imagine Apple, as an example, inventing this many new websites just to cheat the system. NS are trying to stamp all over any negative views on their organisation – it doesn’t suggest a company that is especially confident that its employees, customers nor the world at large are especially impressed by its products or behaviour.
oh and how is Utah this morning?
Hi Steve,
Have you every had any experience with network marketing? The reason when you type in Nu Skin Vietnam into google and find so many listings is because hundreds if not thousands of Nu Skin distributors may be posting information on their personal sites, blogs and Facebook pages which google picks up. Nu Skin as a company certainly does not have any strategy to ask any of it’s independent distributors to do this it’s just part of the way the network communicates with it’s community. In fact Nu Skin has a policy which limites what if anything an independent distributor can post online.
http://www.nuskin.com/global/images/pdf/Policies_Proced_NZ.pdf section I
I hope this is helpful.
Jeff
Hi Steve,
You know I really can’t comment on what has happened with the woman whom you have had such a bad experience with. When I googles Nu Skin just a second ago I found along with corporate and independent Facebook, linked in etc.
Page 1. Information that is totally independent information.
Page 2 I see investing and money reports.
Page 3 Independent blogs, investing and controversy etc.
I am not sure what the google searches bring up on google Vietnam but Google New Zealand seem to be different.
Would you like a screen shot again like the one I sent you in response to your disbelief in my statement of how I found your blog?
I know you have had a bad experience but just because you go to an Apple Store and get a staff member that doesn’t know what they are talking about doesn’t mean that Apple or the rest of the staff are deserve to be classed with the same opinion.
Can I ask are you finding any positives or are you just out looking for the half glass empty.
All my best
Jeff
Steve, I live in Auckland New Zealand.
Jeff, I know you do. It’s Mr Pork Bullet who lives in Utah. You may be defending this online activity as being remote from NS but an anonymous someone at head office seems happy to be describing it as SEO.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/05/most-trustworthy-companies-leadership-governance-100_2.html
#5, in Mid-Cap.
Your experience with one person connected to a company, is no more of a reflection of that company, then one mean angry family member is a reflection of that whole family. Your experience, and therefore your issue, would appear to be with an individual. If you are truly that offended by it, then use her name and call her out. Don’t scapegoat a company that she doesn’t even work for.
“These are the American businesses that have the most transparent and conservative accounting practices and most prudent management.”
And if we were talking about accounting practices or prudent management that might be worth considering for a second. But this Forbes list, mentioned several times by the person we met, is being made out to be something it isn’t. They might be prudent with their money but it doesn’t mean that investing your money in selling their products is especially prudent. But that “trustworthy” tag keeps being misrepresented.
Valid, and I hear you. There are few things I detest more in business then hyperbole and misrepresentation. And so again, your issue seems to be with her (and maybe others) – who are misrepresenting the company. Not with the company itself.
http://www.citronresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/NuSkin-Citron-ChinaandUS1.pdf
According to this stock research company:
Citron broke the story that Nu Skin retail locations were engaging in MLM and/or
pyramid sales activity in China, both expressly forbidden by law in that country.
Nu Skin is in apparent violation of US law, puts its products at
risk of being deemed drugs and medical devices by FDA and FTC
Current guidance to FDA field personnel;
There are numerous skin care products on the market with exaggerated
“anti- aging” claims which cause the products to be unapproved new
drugs. Examples of such claims are that the products “counteract,”
“retard,” or “control” the aging process. Claims that the product will
“rejuvenate,” “repair,” or “restructure” the skin may also be drug claims.
A claim such as “molecules absorb and expand, exerting upward pressure
to ‘lift’ wrinkles upward” is a claim for an inner structural change that
would usually cause a product to be a drug.
Charge: “The article is subject to refusal of admission pursuant to Section
801(a)(3) in that it appears to be a new drug without an effective new
drug application (NDA) as required by Section 505(a).”
Announced Stuart Kim, Ph.D., professor at Stanford University in the departments of Developmental Biology andGenetics, as a new member of the Nu Skin Anti-Aging Scientific Advisory Board.
However,
Dr. Kim worked for two years looking for Youth Gene Clusters while being promised
funding by Nu Skin.
The relationship did not go well, and there was zero data created through Stanford
University.
Dr. Kim never received any funding from Nu Skin.
12
Nu Skin (AgeLOC) relationship to Stanford established through
Dr. Stuart Kim, Ph.D. professor in Genetics
In particular, Nu Skin announced the appointment of Stuart Kim, Ph.D., professor in Stanford’s
Department of Genetics, to its scientific advisory board in January 2010 with the full PR treatment:
http://www.nuskin.com/content/nuskin/en_US/corporate/media_center/press_releases/2010/pr20100
111.html
Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc. (NYSE:NUS), a premier anti-aging company, announced Stuart Kim,
Ph.D., professor at Stanford University in the departments of Developmental Biology and
Genetics, as a new member of the Nu Skin Anti-Aging Scientific Advisory Board. Dr. Kim will
provide insights on the molecular analysis of aging science.
Dr. Kim appears with a photo in Slide 18 of this Powerpoint presentation “Ageloc-products.ppt”
available for download at many sites around the internet.
And he appears here, with photo, halfway down the page in Nu Skin’s company newsletter “The
Source”, with a feature a link to a USA Today story about Dr. Kim that has nothing to do with Nu Skin.
http://www.nuskin.com/content/corpcom/en_US/thesource/featuredarticle.26.html
http://www.nuskin.com/content/corpcom/en_US/thesource/featuredarticle/nu_skin_scientistfeaturedinusatoday.html
Citron spoke to Dr. Kim and this is what he told us:
Dr. Kim worked for two years looking for Youth Gene Clusters while being promised
funding by Nu Skin.
The relationship did not go well, and there was zero data created through Stanford
University.
Dr. Kim never received any funding from Nu Skin.
Citron Research: Nu Skin Page 13
All of Dr. Kim’s research papers posted on Nu Skin’s websites have nothing to do with
Nu Skin, and were never done in collaboration with Nu Skin
Dr. Kim resigned from his advisory board position in 2011. The company did not
announce it.
Yet Nu Skin continues to use the goodwill associated with Dr. Kim’s name in its
promotion of AgeLOC
Dr. Kim wants nothing to do with Nu Skin.
Stanford University’s legal department has been contacted.
Claims of affect to the structure and function of the human
body trigger FDA requirements for proof of safety and efficacy.
Citron thinks this is an amazing moment in time, where “the truth is hiding in
plain sight”. Nu Skin’s officers should either be on the cover of Time Magazine,
or on the top of the list for FDA and FTC regulators.
http://www.citronresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/NuSkin-Citron-ChinaandUS1.pdf
You were right Steve. Massive mislead.
Basically, the company is operating illegally in China, and has run into FDA problems in the States. Stanford University wants nothing to do with them, and their AgeLoc products DON’T EVEN HAVE THE SAME INGREDIENTS.
There is enough hyperbole and lies out there in the world right now with the election around the corner, and Republicans and Democrats everywhere making stuff up left and right. PLEASE don’t add to it. “Stanford Universty wants nothing to do with them” Ummm, no.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stanford-university-releases-statement-reiterating-114000340.html
If you want to look more closely at the integrity of an organization or individual, take a look at Citron Research and Andrew Left.
Brett, that is PR newswire. It’s a Nu Skin press release. And you work for Nu Skin.
Steve, I don’t work for Nu Skin. And that has no bearing on the fact that the previous remark by ‘diabilityanddevelopment’ is ridiculously inaccurate. He can do the research re: Stanford, and he will see the relationship that exists.
As I said, beyond this conversation, it is one of the things I have little patience for. People just throw accusations around all over the place, and we seem to have moved into a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ model. These accusations hurt people, they have powerful negative effects on individuals and families – not just companies. It happens in politics, business, sport, entertainment, and many other places; and lives are impacted.
It’s not something I want to contribute to, and I will do my best to call it out when I see it. Whether that changes anything or not, I’m not sure. However, if I just sit back and watch, then I am part of the problem not the solution.
Brett, you LinkedIn profile says you work for Nu Skin.
OK,
My first question to the people reading this blog is are the people writing all of these negative things committed to their point of view or are they open to some new information?
Nu Skin came under attack by a noted short seller Andrew Left from Citron Research. Short Sellers like Andrew Left essentially take positions on a company and then leak so called bad news into the market spooking investors, so they can make money, sometimes making millions as the share price falls. Sometimes the news is accurate and sometimes it is mis-informed or out of context.
Citron made 3 allegation’s.
NUS is operating an illegal Multilevel Marketing (MLM) practices in China
NUS is in apparent violation of FDA and/or FTC regulatory law in the U.S.
NUS is lying about a scientific research relationship with Stanford University for their flagship technology AgeLOC.
Here are some recent articles and facts
1. Forbes published an article which slams Citron
http://www.forbes.com/sites/taesikyoon/2012/08/17/preying-on-an-easy-mark/?partner=yahootix
2. Nu Skin presented at Cannacord Investor Conference in Boston
and it’s very clear Nu Skin is moving forward with integrity. Download the slides and flick through as Rick Wood CFO of Nu Skin talks through the presentation. The talk is approx 20 min.
http://ir.nuskin.com/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=103888&eventID=4823702
3. Nu Skin has a positive BUY rating by all of the analysts who follow the stock.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=NUS+Analyst+Opinion
4. Some of the worlds largest fund institutions and mutual funds are heavily invested into Nu Skin.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=NUS+Major+Holders
With respect to disabilitanddevelopment I wonder if you will read the ending to the story to get all of the facts before making such comments.
All my best from New Zealand
Jeff Ghaemaghamy
Founder of ProvenPrinciples dot com
With respect to disabilityand development’s comments…
I wonder if you will take the time to complete your research before you make such assumptions. I know it’s easy with the internet to form decisions but that’s no excuse for being responsible.
I have one question
Are you committed to your opinions on Nu Skin or are you open to new information to complete the story?
Nu Skin came under attack by a noted short seller Andrew Left from Citron Research. Short Sellers like Andrew Left essentially take positions on a company and then leak so called bad news into the market spooking investors, so they can make money, sometimes making millions as the share price falls. Sometimes the news is accurate and sometimes it is mis-informed or out of context.
Citron made 3 allegation’s.
NUS is operating an illegal Multilevel Marketing (MLM) practices in China
NUS is in apparent violation of FDA and/or FTC regulatory law in the U.S.
NUS is lying about a scientific research relationship with Stanford University for their flagship technology AgeLOC.
Here are some recent articles and facts
1. Forbes published an article which slams Citron
http://www.forbes.com/sites/taesikyoon/2012/08/17/preying-on-an-easy-mark/?partner=yahootix
2. Nu Skin presented at Cannacord Investor Conference in Boston
I just listened to this recording of the event this morning and it’s very clear Nu Skin is moving forward with integrity. Download the slides and flick through as Rick Wood CFO of Nu Skin talks through the presentation. The talk is approx 20 min.
http://ir.nuskin.com/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=103888&eventID=4823702
3. Nu Skin has a positive BUY rating by all of the analysts who follow the stock.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=NUS+Analyst+Opinion
4. Some of the worlds largest fund institutions and mutual funds are heavily invested into Nu Skin.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=NUS+Major+Holders
I am proud to be partnered with a great company like Nu Skin.
Jeff Ghaemaghamy
Founder, ProvenPrinciples dot com
Jeff, listen to yourself. You’re like a cult. Nu Skin presented at a conference to investors and you say it’s clear from that evidence that they are moving forward with integrity. Jeff, it’s their own presentation to investors – what do you expect them to say? Nu Skin has a BUY rating?There are two issues here which we are arguing over 1) can people just sign up and make money because it appears that the vast majority will lose cash 2) Does the anti ageing really work? Neither of those have anything to do with whether it’s a good buy for analysts. This is the Forbes argument over again. Being a trustworthy stock for investors is not the same as being a good career choice for someone whose been cold called by a Nu Skin Salesperson.
Forbes calls them Trustworthy? Forbes is concerned with investor news that is all. I agree that Citron don’t seem the most reliable form of information but if what they’re printed is so wrong, they why aren’t NS taking legal action? Because it’s fair comment that’s why.
People can claim Time Magazine front pages, partnerships with Universities etc etc but I don’t see anything that specifically backs up claims the claim that someone NS has stalled the aging process. All the research that I have done suggests that if you want to make cash out of this organisation you have to get in on it very early then find a load of people (who will only ever lose money) who will pay you. Isn’t that what you’re doing in Vietnam?
Steve, I have a partnership with Nu Skin, as I have with a handful of companies. I do not work for them.
I’ve read your comments and responses, and I will tell you that some of the things you are saying are true and some are not. I’ve had a partnership with Nu Skin for almost 5 years, and it is one of my most successful businesses. I started that partnership when the company was 22 years old, and have several people around the world that I work with that are making 5-6 figures a year. So, it is definitely a successful business, for people that work it and are committed.
Will the vast majority lose cash? Yes. But that is not because of the company, or the model. It is because most people just won’t do the work. I’ve seen in every industry I have worked in for 20+ years. It’s the same reason that 1000 people will join a gym on January 1 and swear they are going to get in shape, and by March 1 only about 30 are consistently going. Does that make a gym a scam? I think so. But maybe some do. It’s not the treadmills fault someone is not in shape. It is the fault of the person who comes up will a million excuses not to actually get on the treadmill.
I’ve crunched the numbers with Nu Skin. They are publicly traded, everything is transparent. By the numbers, about 5% of the people that start a business with Nu Skin will create significant success (making at least $3k or more a month for the rest of their life), and about 2% will go on to earn over $500k/year. There are over 700 people at that income level with the company, and it was under 500 two years ago. The business is real. I have created success, and I have also helped many others do that same. I know that, because I am living it.
That doesn’t mean everyone will create success. However, those who fail do not so because of Nu Skin. Going back to how this all started, it sounds like you had a bad experience with an individual.
Anyway, I am not here to sell you on my businesses, anymore than you are here to sell me on your’s. There are a few other inaccuracies in your comments, specific on how the business works – but I’ve got to draw the line somewhere, and it feels like this could go back and forth for a while. Like I said, I have the evidence because I am living it. You do not. You have your own experiences that have led you to the beliefs you have, and that is understandable. Perhaps my words have helped you see another angle, perhaps not. Either way, I’ve enjoyed the intelligent debate. Cheers!
Steve,
Are you committed to your view or are you open to more information?
Jeff
Jeff, I’ll believe your figures on 1/20 will make a success out of Nu Skin. I’d like to see Nu Skin be a little more transparent about that. Next question – how much do they pay for that 1/20 chance? What do they fork out for their 5% chance just to make a reasonable living on this?
Secondly, their online behaviour, whatever you say is just noise upon noise. This is undoubtedly systematic abuse of SEO and to drown out any dissenters. I simply don’t believe that this isn’t part of Nu Skin’s core marketing approach.
I am not saying it’s illegal – what I am saying is this, there is a very fine line between illegal pyramid activity and legal multi level marketing – and pyramid is illegal for good reason. Will Nu Skin change your life – not likely, a 1/20 chance at best. Vietnam is still largely a poor country, you come here selling your dreams of being a millionaire to those who have been starving within a generation and you’re going to find a few people willing to bet their house on it – thinking that they can use the money to get the next generation to international colleges and make them safe from poverty forever.
But it’s a 1/20 chance and no one is telling them that. In fact I bet the odds, with what they have to play with, and at this stage of the game, are far longer. I think that is evil. The Greater Fool?
You’re playing on hope? Hope of riches and escaping poverty and hope on defying age. The first has a 1/20 chance – the second is impossible.
Steve,
This conversation is quite entertaining .. I am sure it’s serving your purpose of causing a conversation on your BLOG site…
I asked you in a previous comment:
ARE YOU COMMITTED TO YOUR OPINION OR ARE YOU OPEN TO NEW INFORMATION? IS THEIR ANYTHING I CAN SAY TO ACTUALLY INFLUENCE YOUR OPINION?
NOW JUST FOR FUN LETS ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS
First, I never commented that 1:20 will make money that was a comment by Brett. Please read your blog before posting replies.
Second, Did you bother to LISTEN to the investor presentation and or READ the Forbes article which slams Citron for misinformation? I think not or you wouldn’t be continuing on this tact.
Third, Cult?? I have been nothing but respectful and wonder how someone who I am assuming is educated can make a comment like this.
To answer your questions:
1. Can people make money. YES
Before I talk about the success let me say that success in any business takes WORK and EFFORT and that in my view Nu Skin is a REAL BUSINESS and will take the same discipline as any business. Do people fail? YES! Of course they do .. People FAIL in every type of business. I am sure you will agree with me in my belief in personal responsibility.
So lets talk about SUCCESS. Nu Skin has created approaching 800 millionaires of which I am one of them. Throughout 53 countries Nu Skin has appx 800,000 active accounts of which appx 40,000 are Executive level meaning that they are building a business. The remaining 760,000 are people who joined to purchased and on sell from wholesale to retail and or buy at wholesale themselves. Most people don’t join Nu Skin to make money but rather to buy at wholesale or make enough to get their products for free.
I am sure you will agree you don’t have to become a millionaire to change your life. I have not been to Vietnam but I have travelled through extensively through Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia & Malaysia and I can tell you I have met thousands of people who have had life changing benefits from Nu Skin. In New Zealand earning perhaps a $500 – $1000 a month isn’t very exciting but in developing countries like Vietnam earning this kind of part – time income is life changing. With hard work, focus and time many will go on to earn income beyond their dreams as I have.
2. Do our products work. YES
Nu Skin employees 80 full time scientist and has a dream team SAB (Scientific Advisory Board) having published over 100 books and more than 3400 scientific papers in their respective fields.
Discovery Channel is as we speak making an 1 hour documentary about Nu Skin’s revolutionary ageLOC technology which should air in the coming months.
Here is a brief explanation. Nu Skin partnered and later purchased LifeGen Technologies. This partnership has enabled Nu Skin to have access to more than 30 years of genetic research and exclusive algorithm. This new partnership has created a technology which Nu Skin call ageLOC. The ageLOC science allows Nu Skin scientists to identify genes responsible for the aging process. For example Nu Skin have identified 160 genes related to aging of the skin. Once identified Nu Skin scientists have built product formulas which can reset the gene’s expression back to a more youthful state. This is part of a new science called Epigenetics which you can understand more about in after the article in Time Magazine and in National Geographic. I have a short video which is a very simple explanation on my site http://www.provenprinciples.com/principles-of-ageloc-epi
Now nothing can stop aging but when the genes are behaving in a younger state they repair faster than they break down causing a slowing of the aging process. Nu Skin has now taken this technology inside the body with ageLOC Vitality and now ageLOC R2 effecting mitochondria performance and purification. The future of this technology is showing promise in many areas including fat metabolism and fat storage.
There is so much more to say but If you or anyone reading you BLOG bother to follow the links i have provided they will be more than informed.
With respect
Jeff Ghaemaghamy
Nu Skin Team Elite & Million Dillar Circle
Founder, ProvenPrinciples.com
And I’ll add this link to just how often Nu Skin has had to settle court actions:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/04/mitt-romney-nu-skin-multilevel-marketing-schemes?page=2
You said:
“Discovery Channel is as we speak making an 1 hour documentary about Nu Skin’s revolutionary ageLOC technology which should air in the coming months.”
I can’t find anything to back this up – except for Dr Joe Chang a Nu Skin employee saying:” Discovery Channel is currently planning a special that could highlight the Nu Skin and LifeGen labs.”
Could? Nothing from Discovery Channel.
In fact when you Google “Nu Skin” AND “Discovery Channel” or Ageloc AND “Discovery Channel” this blog is second in the search – it doesn’t suggest there’s many authoritative websites backing up your claim.
As for the rest of the “science part” Nu Skin has been reported for unsubstantiated claims in the past from curing baldness to weight-loss. http://www.motherjones.com/documents/349108-nuskin-ftc-crackdown
Why should anyone believe them now?
Again you bandy about the Time Magazine reference as if somehow proves Nu Skin’s breakthrough but there’s no mention of Nu Skin in the article and nothing about anti ageing cosmetics. In fact it tends to suggest that any practical breakthroughs are some years away.
This is how Nu Skin works, trying to build slithers of proof and respectability, hoping that it adds up to enough evidence to convince people but you know that the ultimate proof isn’t there. There is no weighty independent scientific proof. It’s the cosmetics industry there never is. Read Bad Science.
If you’d really found a way to genuinely slow ageing then you really would be on the front of Time Magazine. But you have to keep believing and you have to find new believers, that’s how it works right. Right now that means moving into Asia – untapped people and poorly regulated markets.
Steve,
This has been fun as I to was very skeptical about Nu Skin however I can see I have been wasting my time answering your questions thinking you were open to other opinions.
I have asked you several times if you are committed to your point of view or if you are open to looking at things from another point of view. OBVIOUSLY you are NOT open.
The articles you posted are 100% accurate but largely not claims of the company but rather some over zealous independent distributors. These were 20 years ago.. Nu Skin has a very strict policies surrounding claims of both products & income potential. This propaganda has all come up because of the USA elections.
The products claims is an interesting point. For example Nutriol hair treatment does have lets say HAIR RAISING RESULTS. If you claim hair growth then the product is classed a drug and must be sold in pharmacy.
TRY the products and then lets see how skeptical you are.
Film crews finished filming at our labs and the doco will air in fall.
If you are truly interested in seeing of Nu Skin is a company of integrity I CHALLENGE YOU to come meet me and I will travel with you to 53 countries where Nu Skin is based. We will meet the successful people and I will introduce you to the corporate leaders. Then if you still feel Nu Skin is as you say company with no integrity I will donate my entire monthly income to charity.
I am not saying Nu Skin is a perfect company but I can tell you Its a GREAT company changing peoples lives. If Nu Skin was a company on the boarder line of being illegal as you state then tell me why major wall street analysts recommend Nu Skin as “BUY” since ageLOC was introduced the stock price has increased from US$7.90 a share to US$43.65 today an increase of over 452% outperforming Apple during the same period.
This will be my last posting unless you choose to accept my CHALLENGE.
Lets see if you are willing to put your money where your key board is .. I am ready to book my flights are you??? Who know we may become great friends
Jeff
I love the idea that I am not open to other opinions. You’re not exactly trying to see both sides – and you have obvious financial reasons to sticking to your guns.
And again (and again) I am sure it does make some people rich – investors and a tiny percentage of the people who decide to sell this stuff. That’s the whole point. It’s the other poor bastards I feel sorry for. You don’t prove that a scam isn’t a scam by saying it makes money. It wouldn’t be a scam otherwise.
Feel free to add a comment or not. I’m out. The plus side to this argument is that the general interest and your comments on this post has pushed it up several pages on Google searches for “Nu Skin” AND “Vietnam”. Now it’s on the first page. I await the Discovery Channel documentary with baited breath.
Steve – People don’t need you to feel sorry for them. They are capable and responsible for their own lives. Your pity is insulting, and serving only you in this case.
Anyone who has ever started a business will tell you that a 1/20 chance of success is about average (95% of small businesses in the US fail in the first 5 years). And a 1/20 chance of succeeding in a business with a 5-year exit strategy, make the odds even more attractive. Those are fantastic odds, and I would take them everyday, in any business venture I started.
A senior high school basketball player in the US has a .03% chance of making the NBA. A senior playing basketball has a .44% chance of making the Majors. I wonder what the odds are of a track athlete or a swimmer or any elite athlete making it to the Olympic games. I would suggest they are likely less. I suppose you would be the guy walking around those high school gyms and athletic complexes telling all those kids to quit. Telling them that the NBA is “scam” because only 3/10,000 ever succeed in getting there.
The people who succeed in Nu Skin, do so because they work hard. They believe and persevere. It is the same reason anyone succeeds in anything. The people who do not succeed are the ones who are lazy, want it handed to them, give up, and quit. It’s the same reason people don’t succeed at anything. My motto: If one can, I can. I am not going to help people make excuses for why they failed, or feel sorry for them. I am going empower them, and hold them responsible.
I speak from experience, as does Jeff. You continue to make statements of hyperbole, exaggerate things, and make claims about things you have zero experience and understand on. Imagine, if you will, if I wrote a blog post trashing VSO because I met someone who was associated with them, and I had a bad experience of that individual. And then I continued to argue with you about everything I “know” about VSO.
I chose to chime in one more time because I realize there is a 1/735,000 chance that you might actually take a deep breath, take a step back, and catch some perspective on how you are being, and the kind of energy you are contributing to the world with your approach. It would be awesome if those odds were 1/20, but I’ll take a chance anyway. The world changes one thought at a time.
This thread is really interesting. Hey Steve, I had a chance to meet Jeff when he went to our country indeed he is a very respectable man. Have you earned your first million dollar already Steve? Im saddened that yuo are so bitter when all the facts are already out! I will never listen to Citron or any blog but will go for the most credible ones like Forbes and Discovery Channel ( Oh if you are not aware Nu Skin will be featured there this December 20120) so much for a scam ayt?
oh and if you need evidence.. here you go:
Vietnam is a very wonderful country and Im excited for the entrepreneurial people who will capitalize on this business to change their lives for the better!
[...] beyond their clunky rude comms is that they must have received my email from someone I trusted. This is not the first time this has happened. I’ve been phoned at my old British Council job by wealth managers. Who gives them my email [...]
Nu Skin, like other MLM companies, make most of their money from distributors. In other words, the people who are supposed to be selling the products are the ones buying most of the products. If they remove their monthly purchasing requirement, their business would collapse. Why? Because there isn’t enough real demand for their products.
The successful people in MLM got there by building huge downlines. The person comparing failure rates in sports to MLM is ignorant just like how they reference 95% of businesses fail within the first 5 years MYTH. Do people who join Nu Skin know that 95% of distributors MUST fail? At least athletes know what their chances are.
“Hard work” in MLM just means recruiting. Most MLMers couldn’t sell products to actual customers if their life depended on it. This is the main reason why MLM companies are scams. They make money by selling products no one wants to distributors who are supposed to be selling them. Distributors buy them mainly to qualify for a paycheck. This is proven by the high % of people who quit buying products once they leave the company. In other words, what people are really buying is the business opportunity.
By the way, it’s a GOOD thing that companies like Nu Skin have such a high failure rate. If a lot more people were successful, MLMers would run out of humans to recruit.
The only way to get the FTC to shut down these scams is for more people to file complaints with them. Here’s the url to do that…
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
MLM companies currently have too much political influence for anything to happen to them. With a near 99% failure rate, one big reason why not many people have file a complaint is because many were told that if they leave the company, they are losers/quitters. They blame the failure on themselves and not the system. The truth is that most people fail because the system is DESIGNED that way. It’s mathematically IMPOSSIBLE for even half to succeed.
If you fell for this scheme, please file a complaint with the FTC. Otherwise, you’re just helping these MLM companies lure more people into their scam.
Hello,
For the record I am a distributor and the reason why I found this blog is because I was looking for the Asian Dicovery Channel link. I think I have the solution to the problem! The proof is in the pudding, so try one of products. Most products have a money back guarrantee, so if it doesnt work send it back… and then you can rant and rave all you want! But until then dont knock what you haven’t tried.
I know MLM’s have a bad rep, but we really do have products that work, and are in demand. Its not just needless junk like others in the blog have claimed. I hate the fact that people are saying they developed supplements, because they are Mormon. We bought Pharmanex from scientists that got sick of fixing what was already broken! Scientists that developed major life saving drugs, and had a part in development of birth control.
Think of it as your own personal little experiment… TRY IT… I will bet that you dont send it back and you order more.
Call and order yourself. I dont want your sale that is not my goal here. I just want you to have all the facts and stop crucifying a company and it’s products, when you have never even tried them to see if they really do work. Its very hypocritical!
Lame, In baseball if you can hit the ball 3 out of 10 times you are paid millions! What does that tell you? Not many people can hit the ball 3 out 10 times…. same thing in MLM it is big odds, but the payoff is amazing. You can make a little or a lot…. It’s all about how hard you work. It is hard work too, but its rewarding. It can be done, but it wont just come to you. NOT every one is Donald Trump, Babe Ruth, or Elvis either, but they did it, they were part of that small percent. Its just like anything else in life, you get back what you put into it.
In full candor, I will tell you that I am a Nu Skin Distributor. I will also tell you that 95% of my sales volume each month consists of customers, not distributors. Don’t get me wrong, I buy a good amount of the products on a monthly basis, but for one reason, I love them. Many of my friends have NO interest in this business but love the products that I have introduced them to so they continue to buy. As for the rest of the issues you have with Nu Skin, I won’t spend time trying to convince you that we are a great company with great products, you have made up your mind. I am sorry that the distributor that you met did not maintain the level of integrity that I teach my teams to uphold. As a distribution network made up of individuals, not employees, you will find all kinds of methodology.
Before I conclude, in September you said that you awaited the Discovery Channel program with baited breath, time to exhale.
@NuSkin Distributor
Every MLMer says their products are great and are in demand and are fairly priced. If that’s the case, how come NuSkin distributors have to purchase 100 points each month to qualify for a paycheck? If the products really are that good, wouldn’t distributors buy them anyway? If so, what’s the point of the minimum PSV?
Yes, success takes hard work and in NuSkin’s case, “hard work” equates to recruiting. Recruiting in of itself isn’t a problem; real businesses do it all the time in order to expand. With NuSkin, the main purpose of recruiting is to get people on the 100 point PSV minimum cycle. This is how most products are sold, to the sellers of NuSkin.
Real companies that have great products AND demand for those products NEVER require their salespeople to buy the products in order to qualify for a paycheck. Why? Because they believe in their products and know that plenty of people are willing to buy them.
If this 100 point PSV requirement gets eliminated tomorrow, do you think most distributors will continue to buy just as many products or less?
If you answered “just as many” then why even have the requirement? If you answered “less” then that shows who the real customers of NuSkin are (distributors) and why the top earners are the ones with the biggest downlines.
I can answer that. The $100 is a requirement, to be a compensated distributor, that you have $100 in sales each month whether it is you using the product or selling it. This is put in place to ensure that our distributors are actually in the business of selling product and not signing up to be compensated for recruiting alone. To not require a sales force to have some amount of sales each month and rather only compensate them for the act of recruiting, is exactly why direct sales companies have been investigated as an illegal model. In that instance you really are not in the business of sales. The alternative is actually more sinister than how you are trying to make this sales volume requirement sound. We are simply a marketing arm and set up distribution networks. If we are only a recruiting arm, with no sales volume requirements, then we have a problem.
@DLW
If you barely have any distributors, then it’s safe to assume you’re not known in NuSkin. Anyone can make money selling products in an MLM but most people who claim they only have customers and very few distributors make less than a person on minimum wage. If there’s one common theme that all of the top distributors in any MLM have in common, it’s that they have a huge downline.
If NuSkin really has such great products that have plenty of demand, then they’d have the guts to remove the monthly PSV requirement, but they don’t. They have to resort to a “pay to get paid” scheme because they’re scared the demand for their “great” products isn’t high enough despite what some of their distributors who have a financial interest say.
The genius in all of this is how the owners of NuSkin have convinced people that there’s nothing wrong with having a PSV even though it clearly discredits the “greatness” of their products.
Please understand. I never said I have barely any distributors.
I said that “95% of my monthly sales volume comes from customers not distributors” .
As much as you seem to want to express that you understand our compensation structure, clearly you do not. Executives do not get to include other executive distributors in our monthly sales volume, only those that are product consumers or just starting out in the business. My point was that this involves supply and demand of product on a monthly basis.
I only came on to comment because I saw something on here suggesting that our Discovery Channel segment was a false claim.
The blog came up when I googled the segment.
The reality is that most of us that truly GET our products and the incredible science that is behind them, find it laughable how hard people work to suggest that we don’t have good products and I don’t intend on arguing the point further here.
We coach our team that if someone is not interested, doesn’t GET it, doesn’t believe it, we move on. It is not our job to convince you to try something that you don’t have interest in.
If you believe that we are a scam, believe that we have sham products, believe that we are illegal, you are entitled to those beliefs. I on the other hand know differently and will, as should all other NSE executives on this blog, will take my leave.
@DLW Who said anything about compensating people for recruiting? Having a sales volume to qualify for compensation is fine. However, the 100 PSV isn’t a sales volume requirement, it’s a purchase volume requirement. Whether a distributor could sell 100 points of products or not, they still have to buy it. Wouldn’t it make more sense to leave it up to the distributor how much they want to buy each month?
You want to ensure people are in the business of selling products? Don’t have a 100 PSV requirement. That way, finding customers will be more enticing than recruiting. Make sense?
Why would you recruit? Because those recruits will buy 100 points each month and bring in other recruits who will also buy 100 points each month, making you money. Because of this requirement, the average recruit is worth more to you than the average customer. Paying you to recruit would make NuSkin seem fishy but telling you to buy 100 points and calling it a sales volume makes them seem more legit. And convincing distributors that this requirement makes perfect sense, well that’s just genius.
You said: “The reality is that most of us that truly GET our products and the incredible science that is behind them”
Which is why NuSkin requires distributors to buy 100 points each month right? Please. If the products are great, you’d buy that much anyway without the need of the company to force you to.
You said 95% of your sale volume comes from customers and you seem to also say you have plenty of distributors. So what you’re claiming is that the average NuSkin preferred customer spends more on products each month than the average distributor who buys at least 100 points each month? Meaning the average preferred customer buys over 100 points each month. Please publicly confirm this.
@Lame,
I received an email that you are asking me further questions on this blog and apparently you didn’t read my closing comment from my last post. I assure you, that won’t be baited to respond again.
I can see that you want to have a protracted argument about Nu Skin. I take that to mean that you have either had a bad experience in direct sales, that you just like to fight, or that you see yourself as saving lessor intelligent members of the web from our sinister trap.
I, on the other hand, have no interest. You want me to “confirm publicly” (again laughable) your interpretation of what I said. Well counselor, it is not an accurate interpretation and you only put half of my quote in your posting. Baiting.
Really it just is of little interest to me to have a point by point argument with a stranger on the internet about something we just aren’t going to agree on. Like I have said, I came on to the blog to post the Discovery Channel segment for those interested.
My interest lies in building a distribution network in which to funnel our products, to help others build a residual income with a company that I have found to have an amazing amount of integrity and to be on the forefront of this gene expression science. See…..our interests diverge at every step.
I know that you want to prove some huge point and you are taking what I am saying and molding it into support of what you want. I am willing to let you do that. Go ahead. Have your opinion, believe what you choose, share it with the world, as misguided as it is. I will let you be the genius that you think that you are and will go on my way, building my business with people who join my team with WIDE open eyes.
Those who don’t wish to join me don’t have to and that clearly includes you. I wish you well in your endeavors but @DLW is moving on. Seek an argument elsewhere on the internet. I have work to do.
The average Nu Skin customer in the US spends $168/month. That is the latest number.
You have been going at this for MONTHS. Whatever you do that injects positivity into the world (which I am sure is something), and makes a difference in helping people – please do the world and yourself a favor and go back to doing that. The world needs you building it up, not tearing things down from ignorance.
So many of your comments prove that you actually have no experience of Nu Skin, their products or business. You have made it clear through your inaccuracies that you are talking from a lack of experience and knowledge. Whatever this is about, it is NOT about Nu Skin. You are projecting your negativity about someone else, yourself, or something else onto Nu Skin.
I hope you figure out what that is, and choose to focus your energy for change there.
I have a rule, I don’t take feedback from people who aren’t doing what I am doing the same or better than me. For example, I would not take parenting advice from someone who does not have a child (who is not a parent). Most people agree that makes sense. Right now, you are the guy with no kids, talking about how much you know about parenting. It is my hope for you that you see that, and choose to let this go and get on with your life. Cheers!
@DLW
Comments on this blog doesn’t appear until the admin approves them which means my comment was made before reading your last one. Also, this blog emails you, not me. You must’ve clicked on the box that says to notify you when follow up comments are made. Not my issue.
Please continue with your “business”. My intention was never to change your mind. Just asking questions but if you don’t want to answer them and think I’m baiting you somehow, that’s fine.
@brettgajda
I only knew about this blog last month. My first comment was barely over a month ago. You’ve been at this for MONTHS, not me. Just wanted to make that clear unless you were talking to someone else.
Anyway, thanks for answering my question. Can you provide a link where it states that the average preferred customer spends $168/month? Thanks.
Hi Lame (strange alias, btw)
I was addressing someone else. I think the originator of these comments, which started 6 months ago. I commented a few times months ago, and so I get all the updates. Though I stopped engaging a while back, I do read most of them.
The $168 number is something I received from the company about 6 months ago. I have been a Distributor with Nu Skin for almost 5 years, and am a numbers guy. I like knowing the real numbers and facts, and am not a fan of ignorance or hyperbole in business. I got the number directly from one of the corporate officers. I am not sure where the info is published, or if it is. Nu Skin is publicly traded, which one hand means lots of numbers are transparent and public record. It also means that certain numbers may or may not be published, if they are not approved by the board for release. I truly don’t know which category the average customer spend lands in.
If you have any additional questions about Nu Skin from a business standpoint, email me offline of this chat at brettgajda@gmail.com. No need to have this middle man (or blog, as it may be).
Hi Brett, thanks for the response. Misunderstanding then. No problem.
It would be really helpful if you can find out where that statistic can be found. If it’s true, I’m sure Nu Skin has already published it somewhere because it makes the company look very, very good. I don’t think any MLM company with a monthly requirement has preferred customers who spend, on average, more than whatever their distributors’ monthly requirement is.
So, if the average preferred customer in Nu Skin really does spend $168/month, it would certainly put the company up on top as one of the best MLM companies in the industry. It would also make much of the negative stuff written on this blog about Nu Skin pointless. In fact, with that statistic alone, you could shut down most arguments about Nu Skin being a pyramid scheme.
Having proof of that statistic would be very helpful to your fellow Nu Skin distributors so please get it if you can. If corporate says it’s not published, I would encourage them to publish it. Numbers like that will help the company tremendously and there’s really no reason to keep something like that from the public. Any MLM company with a monthly requirement would absolutely love to have numbers like that.
NUskin Is the best company! I am grateful with this company it change my life and the life of many. I’ve seen a lot of people became successful because of this business….They’ve created close to a thousand US dollar millionaires….. That’s why I only listen and read resources that came from credible sources like forbes magazine and new York stock exchange..We will use this business to create a lot of millionaires here in the Philippines. this business it gives hope to our country. Nuskin your the best!all of the good and None of the bad.
Kenn
nuskin is the best! GO GO GO!!!=)lets make a difference and be a force for good!=)
I ‘ve been researching this “business opportunity” after getting constant recruiting calls from an acquaintance. Seeing her persistence, I agreed to look into it…not just listen to the webcast sales pitch, but gather some info myself. I found the earning disclosure from the Nuskin website…something that I asked the recruiter repeatedly but she was either very evasive about it or didn’t even know of its existence. I suspect that the company is required by law to have this in place somewhere and does not readily hand it out. Read it and decide for yourself your chances if succeeding in the business.
http://www.nuskin.com/content/dam/global/library/pdf/distearnings.pdf
To quote the document: “The average commission paid to U.S. Active Distributors each month was $118.05, or $1,416.60 on an annualized basis.”
What if you are ambitious and don’t want to be average, and feel that you can be the top 10% of active distributors? Extrapolating from the numbers in the document, at the top 10% you probably make around $500 a year. Top 1% will get you around 15000 a year. Want to make 100K or more? Sure it’s possible, but you would likely have to be in the top 0.25% , or 1 in 400 active distributors. Keep in mind that “active distributors” are probably the ones taking the time to commit to the business, and the earning numbers don’t count the large number distributors who have given up or discontinued the business, To put it bluntly, the numbers say that the mean income of of a Nu Skin distributor is about 1/10th of a minimum wage worker.
Sure there are success stories as I have been repeatedly told, but how often do they happen? “What do you have to lose?” I was always asked. Assuming that this “business opportunity” doesn’t cost me anything in terms of money (which it does…i think you have to commit to certain personal minimum order per month to maintain your distributor status), what about the cost of time? or the cost of personal embarrassment for selling to friends and relatives overpriced supplements, or worse, things with dubious and far fetched medical claims?
While I have a lot of admiration for the entrepreneurial spirit of those who start their own business, I advise people to search and investigate the facts themselves, and not relying on the sales pitch from those who benefits from your recruitment.
Cheers,
Joe