No smiles in Vietnam. Really?
From Paul Theroux’s Ghost Train to Eastern Star
Most writing about travel takes the form of jumping to conclusions. And so most travel books are superfluous. The thinnest, most transparent monologuing. Little better than a licence to bore. Travel writing is the lowest form of literary self indulgence. Dishonest complaining, creative mendacity, pointless heroics and chronic posturing – much of it distorted with Munchhausen syndrome.
Of course it is much harder to stay at home and be polite to people and face things – but where is the book in that? Better the boastful charade of pretending to be an adventurer. A lusty – “look at me” in exotic landscapes.
***
Little bits of uncompleted life – what the traveller habitually sees – inspires pathos and poetry as well as the maddening sense of being an outsider. Jumping to conclusions and generalising. Inventing and recreating places from vagrant glimpses.
The above passages came back to me as I read Lillie’s “Around the World” blog.
After 6 years teaching public school, I’m traveling around the world for a year (or more!) to write spicy stories.
There’s a reason newspapers are going to the wall. We’re all journalists now. The industry, if not entirely the profession, is de-skilled. That’s generally something I choose to see as a positive thing.
But what Paul Theroux said of travel writing is now truer than ever. You don’t turn up to your potential publishers and have them grill you on where you’ve been and what you’ve written. You just set up a blog and start writing.
On entering Laos, Lillie reflects on Vietnam:
I am confused. What is this strange upward twist of the lips I am seeing here in Laos? I’ve just been in Vietnam for the past month and this expression is unfamiliar. Wait a minute… it’s coming back to me… this expression is known as a “SMILE”! Glory be, Laos is full of them!
Later she adds:
I nearly hugged the waiters when I realized that they could banter. I love bantering! Vietnam does not do banter.
Now, kudos to Laos, but let me assure that Vietnam does both smiles and banter. The pic above is of the staff at Old Quarter hang out Le Pub as they were today – having a blast getting ready for their Halloween party. Banter and smiles aplenty.
Today I had a typical lazy expat Saturday. Swinging between coffee shops – banter and smiles at each.
But what I will admit is this. The conclusion that Lillie has jumped to is not unique. I have read and heard of it before. I have struggled to entirely understand it because I don’t see it. But I will try to make sense of it.
Just for a second put yourselves in the position of the Vietnamese dealing with backpackers. And yes, I mean specifically backpackers.
I used to work in a charity restaurant where the profits went towards keeping street children off the streets. We had a feedback form and would regularly get messages along the lines of – I am just a backpacker your prices are too expensive for me – there should be a special price for backpackers.
The attitude that somehow the backpacker is both victim and the suggested recipient of charity is not unusual. Virtually every time I am in Hanoi’s old quarter I see a backpacker blue in the face and arguing with some local person about a price. Check this also from Lillie.
Now, first of all. The scamming is ridiculous, should be clamped down on and does Vietnam no favours. However backpackers answer me this – how do you bargain without knowing the correct price.?
The truth is you don’t. You can’t. Instead you pay what you can afford. Don’t complain that you were scammed because a) you didn’t know the real price b) you could afford the price suggested and c) you are not very good at bargaining.
The other point about bargaining is this. Bargaining is not them suggesting a price and you calling them a thief and shouting at them. You smile when you bargain. You joke. It’s a dance. It’s flirting. Every transaction should end with both of you smiling.
Get a sense of perspective. If you have an around the world ticket you are not poor. And please..don’t say “but I am on a budget”. If your cash is so short then perhaps your holiday is too long.
Please – don’t lose your temper and write off a whole country as you wave goodbye to a couple of dollars. Just put it down to experience.
As for the people who “serve” you. Can you imagine a succession of backpackers demanding accommodation for under $10 a night but then wanting the earth. Lillie writes:
Sean and I literally investigated 25 hotels over the course of an hour, up and down the sun-glorious, palm-lined main strip of Mui Ne. It was worth it! So what happened? Well, first, everything Lonely Planet suggested was rickety trash. Then, many of the nicer places were a non-negotiable $20 or higher a night: well above of our price cap of $10. Meanwhile, motorbike touts tailed us like wedding car cans, calling, “Come to good hotel! Just six kilometers away!” We declined.
That’s 25 hotels. Can you imagine having that much time? Having that much belief that everywhere was “rickety trash”? Can you imagine what it must be like for the hotel owners to have people turn up and screw their nose up and move on? Do you want them to put their palms together, smile and bow?
(I increasingly think that is exactly what people want in Asia. Sorry but less than $10 on a room doesn’t quite compensate people enough to bow and scrape in the face of open hostility)
So with locals earning a dollar a day faced with backpackers who’ll drink ten dollars a day and still have faces like thunder – well, you can start to understand their point of view. As every local is branded a thief and a scammer it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And take a look at your fellow backpackers. I see hundreds walking around Hanoi as if they are at the beach. Quite often literally filthy. Can you imagine what it is like having to deal with the unwashed, breezing through your establishments – arguing that they shouldn’t have to pay much because they are “only backpackers” before turning their nose up and trying out the next establishment.
Have some self-awareness. Realise that if you are on such a tight budget then goodwill may not come as part of the package. You’ll have to earn that the old-fashioned way – by treating people with decency and respect. Lillie may not have noticed it but I find nothing works better here than humour and banter.
Additionally try humility. It works well in Vietnam. It works well in travel writing too.
In truth none of us really knows or understands anything here. I’ve spent a total of three years in Vietnam and all I know is I know nothing.
Sometimes, admitting that, is all it takes.
No comment necessary, Ourman. You’ve pretty much vented my spleen for me. Ta for that.
AMEN to every word of this. I’ve ranted similarly many times, often while I myself was a backpacker!
What a spot-on piece! It amazes me that most backpackers (where ever you may encounter them) think of themselves as enlightened adventurers when in fact they are quite incapable of leaving behind their attitudes of presumed cultural superiority.
A little Hanoian wordplay pretty much sums up the situation: “Tay ba lo” (backpacker) becomes “Tay khong do” (Westerner without dollars).
Mosh, Mona – I think I am getting more sensitive to it as I get older. I too have backpacked and have probably, most likely, been guilty of pretty odious behaviour – but in general it’s a good lesson to learn that you get what you give in Hanoi. And keep smiling and people will smile back.
To be fair to Lillie she’s probably getting the brunt of my annoyance when it’s been earnt by a succession of blogs.
In particular though I have developed an irritation to backpacker/travel writers. In particular those offering travel tips. I read one this week on how to get a cyclo ride. It took several hundred words to say – stop one, tell them where you want to go and pay them. The trouble with most travel articles is that they all write what they want to write just off their top of their heads.
With respect to Lillie – she’s a teacher by her own admission. How can she offer travel tips? And if you are going to position yourself as a travel writer then do some interviews don’t just offer advice from your own limited experience.
Having said all that I like the filter mechanism of Hanoi. I like people who like Hanoi.
NVH “Tay khong do” – love it. I will use that . I think superiority is exactly what it is. Plus the inability to take a step back and look at their own behaviour in context. I also have to add that the Lonely Planet tone that always suggests that every country in the world is dangerous and full of scammers is partly to blame.
I think a lot of backpackers are also guilty of thinking they’re having a more “authentic” cultural experience than say, package tourists. Which is probably true, but it’s easy to feel cynical when you see folks spend most of their time in enclaves like Ko Sanh Rd, Thamel, Vang Vieng etc.
But I chalk it up to youth mostly–we’re all guilty of these things sometimes, and at least they’re getting out there.
The authentic one is difficult. I think they are closer to real life in the sense that the people they deal are most likely small, family run, concerns.
But while the staff at the Sheraton may be used to bowing and painting on fixed smiles – tiny backpacker hotels may not.
So if you want wall-to-wall smiles – bust your budget and stay in the Sheraton. If you want real life then go cheap. But then sometimes real life just isn’t as smiley as you’d hoped it would be. Unless, as I said – you take the time and make the effort and actually be respectful and smiley in return.
conversely, and in Vietnam in particular, I’ve found people are *more* willing to smile, and bend ovee backwards to help… moreso in smaller family-run places. Big hotels worldwide see you as just another punter, in my experience.
Mosh – agreed…just so long as you aren’t an utter misery and a pain in the arse to them.
I’m of two minds about this (very well written btw). On the one hand, I agree that odious and entitled backpacker behavior is disrespectful and appalling and lacking in sensitivity to the culture from which they are attempting to find enlightenment.
But from a travel writing perspective, as an armchair traveler or someone about to prepare for a trip, I really do like to read blog posts and other informal accounts. That’s how I’ve found restaurant recommendations, travel practicalities, packing lists, do’s and don’ts…etc.
When we were preparing to travel to Hanoi and Hue last summer, I was endlessly reading packing lists and trying to find as many blog posts as I could. I wanted to see photos and maps and really get a sense for where I’d be going. I’ll admit that I’m the type of traveler who want to know – as much as is possible – what to expect so I can plan for it (I’m a pretty anxious Virgo that way, also the type of person who likes to read a menu online before going to a restaurant so I can decide in advance what to order!). We’re in a unique situation – traveling to Vietnam as tourists, sort of, but also bringing our adopted son back to his birthcountry. I found it very helpful to read travel tips of adoptive parents who had been there/done that so I could gain from their experience. Travel writers they were not, but I did find their personal and self-indulgent blogs (hey, I have one myself) an integral part of my trip planning.
All blogs are self indulgent – no arguments there. But I would argue that your niche requirements are more generic that travel tips that say things like…when looking for a hotel try guide books and the internet. I think most people can work that out.
Or you read packing articles that say…don’t bring more than you can carry. Or it’s hot so pack light weight clothes.
Personally I am always torn. Half of me is impatient and can’t wait to see what it’s like. The other half of me doesn’t want to see it at all.
I think the main thing to know is – it’s not hard. Not at all. In fact it’s easier than travelling in most developed countries simply because pretty much everyone you deal with will take you somewhere.
In the end though it’s not the scams that ruin holidays – because they are invariably for a couple of dollars here and there. It’s the reaction to scams.
I think wherever you end up you have to take at least part of the blame if it doesn’t work. You have to be able to say…what did I do wrong?
Too much of the travels tips are money orientated. I know people have budgets but there’s something very unpleasant about convincing yourself that you are poor in a country where, despite progress, there is still a great deal of poverty.
As I argued on Lillie’s blog. I am not saying that such a blog shouldn’t be there. I am arguing with the points made and hopefully balancing them. And hopefully making Lillie think again.
Again I can’t claim to be 100% right and 100% wrong – it’s just opinions.
I so wish I could better articulate what I want to say…but alas, it’s late
I love this post- I read it twice.
While we were in Vietnam I found myself horrified by the behavior of many backpackers- ashamed because I have been one myself over the years and hoped to god I was better behaved (!) We were living in a neighborhood that was definitely off the tourist track and we did everything possible to stay away from said backpackers whenever we ventured out. We found the level of condescending attitudes and sense of entitlement were over the top- shocking at times.
Is it because our son is Vietnamese and we were/are trying so hard to connect to the country that this behavior was so glaring? Is it that our hearts and loyalties automatically turn to the Vietnamese? Is it that many travelers just see the people in the country where they are as props? Our time in VN humbled us. Every day, again and again. It is what drives us to make that leap in a few years to live incountry for a while when our son is a bit older. Of course there is corruption and scamming- and that is the case in most places you go. Different levels and types, but it exists nonetheless.
“Too much of the travels tips are money orientated. I know people have budgets but there’s something very unpleasant about convincing yourself that you are poor in a country where, despite progress, there is still a great deal of poverty.”
Perfectly said…
ok, I’m a foreigner. but I can tell you that Vietnam is probably the best country I have ever been to. The people, the cultuture, thr way of life… It’s getting more western by the year which is a shame, but it is still such an amazing place to go that I rate it as me number one place to go. Roll on next summer and trip number 6!
3CF – Taking into account what you said and what Mosh also says above – and from my experience – I think it is fair to say that some people just click with Vietnam. It makes you want to wheel them out in front of angry backpackers and say…go on…show them what you do.
Because you and Mosh and thousands of others love it here (this city has tens of thousands of expats before you even start counting the tourists).
And the people who do love it here have come here with a positive attitude and with respect. And the single best tip I can give is don’t stop smiling when dealing with people.
If you have respect for people and treat them accordingly then they will respect you. As Mosh has found – rather than rip you off people, quite often, will go the opposite way – going way beyond the call of duty to assist you.
I recently moved into a new apartment and loved it. Since I moved in they bought me a microwave that I didn’t ask for. Later when they saw shoes lined up against the wall they bought me a traditional Vietnamese shoe cabinet to shut them away in.
With my cynical head on I tried to work out their motives. I had already paid up front. Signed a contract. There was no chance of them putting the prices up or asking for more cash.
In the end I had to come to the conclusion that these additions were purely out of kindness and from wanting me to be happy and comfortable here.
As for becoming westernised – it’s probably inevitable and comes with the country becoming richer which is a good thing.
The Vietnamese, themselves, are starting to point fingers at a new generation of rebellious youth. I’ve said it before – Vietnam is in the 50s. The teenager is born. Next up, hopefully, is gender equality. The world over – getting richer means becoming westernised. For good or for bad.
As for being the best country – me too. I’ve lived in Central America and Africa too. I used to think that perhaps what I enjoyed was living overseas – rather than Hanoi being special. In the end though nowhere else came close.
And hello, from the very same (rather obnoxious) Lillie referred to in Steve’s insightful article!
I would like to offer my sincere apologies for the glib, ignorant declarations of my posts, and I would like to assure you all that this extended dialogue has made me reflect a LOT, hopefully for the better. Thank you for calling me out on my crap!
That said, I do want to point out my comments were somewhat misconstrued– I LOVED Vietnam. Maybe I didn’t find it smiley-smiley (which, Steve points out, is probably through my own fault), but that’s not exactly what I look for to adore a place. Keep in mind I spent 6 years as a public school teacher and thus am more used to truth and spunk than bowing down!
I spent an incredible month in Vietnam meeting wonderful people and being constantly fascinated. I have a ton of other articles on the blog that I think might show more of my positive interactions with Vietnam, but if they don’t then please blame it on my youth, ignorance, poor language skills, etc. I am new to this writing thing, and I do hope I can do it better as time goes on.
With Humility and Apologies,
Lillie
Lillie – don’t apologise – you’ve nothing to apologise for. It’s just different opinions. I am sure you had a wonderful month in Vietnam – but it does seem a little harsh to recall it in hindsight as a place where people don’t smile.
Keep on writing. As I said on your own blog – I’d love to hear a little more of the wonder of travelling.
By the way – if you can download it that Paul Theroux book – available by iTunes is a fabulous way for us to learn a master class in travel writing.
It’s probably not as saleable but I’d much rather read a travel diary than travel tips. You’re creating a souvenir too.
You’d be surprised how quickly you forget the details and what it’s like once it is over.
In the meantime – don’t be too hard on yourself.
Great post Steve. But what I really wanted to comment on was Lilli’s response – wonderful, humble, learning, politely disagreeing where he thought you were a little off. Very well done, Lilli.
B
So I actually don’t like Ha Noi :/
BUT to say that the people of Vietnam are anything but the most hospitable people on this earth is absurd.
I may complain about the heat and the bugs, but these people treat me like a queen and I don’t deserve it all.
I’ve been living in Venezuela for a while now and I want to share some of my experiences with you all. I’ve found if you smile at backpackers, generally they’ll smile back at you. Some of them can speak english too, which is fun and enlightening I’ve even seen a few of them reading ‘Lonely Planet’ by Tony Wheeler – a classic of it’s time and for literacy challenges it’s got lots of pictures and maps and all sorts of cool stuff you can all use in your travel blogs. Backpackers are great and should be listed in the UN world heritage book of ‘must not wash before you banter’ sections.The only problem I find is that VN is 5000 km from Laos….now I’m confused, anyone know where I can find a rickety trash hotel for under $1.50 ?
Ah ha. the “witty Irish ex-pat who has lived in Hanoi for nine years”.
http://lmarshallworld.blogspot.com/2009/10/yum-eat-vietnamese-bun-bo-nam-bo.html
Wow! Ourman comes across as a total ASS in this post as well as the comments on Lillie’s blog. Why not just post an article about looking at backpackers from the local shop / hotel owners point of view instead of singling out one person and outright attacking her (yes that’s what happened).
From Lillie’s original post:
“If people weren’t smiling at you (or you weren’t smiling) in Vietnam then you were doing something very wrong.”
Really? And that’s wonderful that you don’t find the travel tips useful but I’m pretty sure you’d be in the minority there. Most readers (unless they’re cranky losers scouring for subtle criticisms to attack) likely have never been to the places Lillie’s writing about and have very little experience traveling in such places. To them the tips would be quite useful. I find them to be at least.
I also don’t quite get the “we’re all journalists now” point. Isn’t the idea of relaying an individual experience the very nature behind the idea of blogging in the first place. I mean, who reading Lillie’s blog is wishing she had a publisher to grill her over the facts??? Nobody but you.
It also seems as if you have summed up Lillie’s entire existence through one or two articles that you no doubt googled in order to make yourself riled up. There’s a lot more to the blog than tips on saving a buck.
If you wanted to contribute something you may have included some input on whether or not Lillie’s experience with bait and switch taxi drivers is something to be concerned about. I’d say that quoting one price and then switching to an inflated price is something a would be traveler should be aware of.
It’s also a bit baffling how you want to encourage Lillie to stick to her words all while outright trashing her opinions. Seems so authoritative to me.
Yet you also say that you doubt that you could offer any travel tips about Viet Nam even after 3 years of being there. Really? Maybe you just have a problem with the offering of tips (although it hasn’t stopped you from offering blogging tips).
A travel blog can only be what it is. You can’t have 3 years of experience somewhere when you only have 1 week or 1 month. The reader knows that this is one person’s opinion, one person’s experiences. Do you think someone should not blog until they have experienced things the way you have?
At the least you have unleashed your frustration on Lillie unnecessarily in my opinion. I believe an apology is in order. I challenge you to find a more open minded traveler in any capacity than Lillie. She has handled herself on this trip with grace, smarts, class and warmth in the face of some challenging and a few outright offensive experiences. She has never let the negativity to impact the thrill of her adventure for longer than a minute or two. She always points her readers towards the positive experiences (which comes quite easily by the way since there are considerably more positives).
I have followed her trip from the first post and before hand I had never considered traveling to Viet Nam. Her words have me up at night trying to figure out when and how my inevitable trip there will be. She has spoken of Viet Nam highly in nearly every single related post, and if she sees more smiles in Laos than VN how does that negate all of her previous opinions? It doesn’t.
Your view of the locals point of view is extremely useful. I know your words will influence my actions in Viet Nam. I believe Lillie humbly mentioned the same. The personal and confrontational nature of how you got your point across left a lot to be desired.
You also may want to consider that assuming all your points are in fact true, that the local folks are growing tired of the backpackers and their ways, then perhaps Lillie was greeted with frowns due to *their* preconceptions and past experiences. While this may ultimately have originated with a rude and hostile backpacker from the past, Lillie has no way of gauging those interactions. It seems a vicious cycle has developed making it hard to accurately place the blame.
I also get the part about hard and fast budgeting, and will use those tips on future travels as well. Admittedly it is difficult to judge how much things actually cost when guidebooks and horror stories have you on high alert at all times. I believe Lillie was very flexible in this way as well. She offered a compromise to the taxi driver when he did the bait and switch instead of lashing out in anger and giving only the agreed price. She fairly renegotiated a contract lower after suffering a humiliating act of inappropriateness from a hired guide instead of taking more drastic measures.
All in all I am upset because (again in my opinion) you have severely misjudged Lillie and made her the poster girl of your little cause. I can’t be sure but I would guess that I am the only commenter that has read her every post. Only then can you make a somewhat fair assessment.
I have to ask, if travel writing is the lowest form of literary self indulgence, then what is travel writing critique supposed to be?